Archive for August, 2009

God Hates Gays

August 27, 2009 4 comments

Homosexual People


Part 2 of My Coffee Chat With a Methodist Preacher

I was curious what TP’s opinion of Gays in the church was and what he thought about the sudden onset of a tornado soon after the Minneapolis Luthern Church made a decision about homosexuals in the church.  I figured if he thought tornadoes were God’s wrath for Gay’s the likelihood of our finding any common ground for discussion was zilch.  


TP has a very interesting, if not slightly confused impression of what it means to be gay.  I called him out on some of his assumptions.  Largely he feels that homosexuality is not an abomination of God, or particularly sinful, but he frankly said that ‘it is just wrong.’  He made the comment that he has a few gay friends and their life is miserable, presumably because they are gay. 

My counter to his argument was that if a Gay person’s life is miserable it is not because of being gay, but more likely because of society’s (Society: amalgamation of the institutions of education, religious, social and political)  oppression and overt hatred of gayness.  Either this, or they are just miserable people, like any hetero person may be.

TP seemed to concede a little on this point, but did make the trite remark that not doing God’s Will ultimately creates a division between you and the Holy Spirit.  Obviously being Heterosexual is God’s Will. 

To drive my point home further, I explained to him that we see a lot of species in the wild that use homosexual pair bonding for purposes of protection, alliance formation and when there is a lack of females.  I have recently become familiar with the term ‘homosociality’ which I love.  


I wanted to know if he thought gay to straight conversions could be made through the Power of Christ.  He admitted that he did not know of any ‘cure’ for gay people (men or women).  But that a person has control over their actions, no matter what they feel inside.  He made a point about a relative with Multiple Sclerosis (MS).  He notes that even though she is fraught with problems of spasticity and physical limitations, she does everything in her power to try and combat her illness and take therapeutic medications when available.  So, she tries not to be handicap in public…hmmm.


So, apparently being gay is a disease, punctuated by failure of will, ultimately leading people to unholy practices which will ultimately take them out of God’s Grace and deliver them to Hell.


Geez, God must really hate humans!


More, later.





An Atheist and a Preacher Chat over Coffee.

August 26, 2009 8 comments

Session one


Due to the length of time we talked and the vast, somewhat disparate spectrum of material we covered I will make several smaller posts, rather than one large post.


So, I met with The Pastor (TP) for the first time today.  We met at a local coffee shop in our town.  We spent over 90 minutes gently jousting most ideas back and forth and some other’s with conviction that you would expect from and Atheist and a Baptist raised Methodist Preacher.  There were moments that we chided one another’s beliefs and assumption, occasionally even laughing at each other, as well as, with one another.  But in general the meeting was congenial, expository, cursory and yet ripe with promise for future focused discussions.   And there was NO talk of Hell, Damnation, nor of my lack of baptism!  I mention this because I very plainly told him that I am an Atheist, always have been and likely will always be one. 


When we first met in the parking lot we said hello and shook hands.  TP apologized for being a few minutes late, mentioning that as soon as he was preparing to leave his office, ‘everybody needed something.’  I replied ‘they were probably wondering why you wanted to hang out with a heretic like me!’  He chuckled and responded ‘I didn’t tell anybody about you.’   We collectively chuckled and the tone of the meeting was now set.


I will start with what is probably the most contentious and obvious disagreement we had. Keep in mind, I like this guy, and I can’t wait to have another, more focused meeting. 


One of the take home messages that I found sort of irritating was that he iterated several times that he does not consider me an Atheist.  His impression is that I am a ‘Seeker.’  So, naturally I asked him what he meant by the term seeker.  TP seemed to confuse my desire to take an interest in learning more about the Christian faith with my true intention, which is to learn more about WHY people adhere to the Christian faith.  The fact that I am a scientist seemed to strengthen his argument.  His impression is that I am searching for ‘The Truth.’  Frankly, I am seeking answers, but I am not seeking them in archaic textbooks about heavenly deities or mortal God-men.  I am seeking answers through, at times, laborious study and repetition of outcomes.   


After talking with him for a while, I think I understand the Christian Mind (the sane ones at least) a little better.  For TP anyone with curiosity, virtue, good moral character, etc can only be doing God’s work.  The argument would be that the opposite actions would be inherently evil and therefore Satan’s work or more politely, separate from God.   For a non-theist like myself, I really am only doing what comes natural to me without ever once pleading with God for direction, special treatment, wisdom, safety…etc. 


Lastly for this post, I did ask him bluntly if he was feeling apostate toward his religion.  He smiled and we chatted a bit, but you know he never did say no…



Open Invitation

August 24, 2009 6 comments

I had a very unexpected and somewhat exciting phone call the other day. It was from my Wife’s Pastor. He was calling me on my personal cell phone. He stated that he wanted to come over to the house and more or less ‘catch up and see how things are going.’ I was not in a position to have a house guest, so I countered his offer and we decided to meet this coming Wednesday, one on one, at a local coffee shop. After I hung up with The Pastor my mind was abuzz with ideas of what this meeting may imply. Am I going to be preached to? This is unlikely, given what I know about The Pastor. Was I going to be cornered by some heavy duty witnessing? Again, unlikely. So, what then would he possibly want to chat about?

The Pastor is Pastor for my in-laws, my wife and many of the people in their social, academic, occupational and personal life. The outcome of our meeting could, potentially, have far reaching consequence, both at home and in my interaction with many other people. What I have decided to do is take a very open approach to our meeting. I will be armed only with knowledge, curiosity and a pen and paper. I thought about sharing some of my recent readings (Hitchens, Harris, Gould), or maybe some of the text that I peruse on non-canonical Christian text. But, I think that my approach will be much more sponge-like, flexible and absorbent.

I will place a post-meeting post about my experience and the gist of our dialogue. Frankly I feel a little outgunned and maybe even a little out of my league. Although, I am hopeful this will be the first of many such coffee shop chats.

I would love to hear any thoughts from you all regarding similar experiences or even some help with my approach.


The Passing

August 21, 2009 10 comments

My Wife and I got some very sad new that a friends 4 month old son died last night. He was born with a bad heart and had several surgeries to correct it, but his genes obviously were more faulty that we all hoped. He died in route to a large children’s hospital.
I write this post simply to get a feel how other Atheists deal with these situations. I do not have a God to lean on, I don’t think this fits into a grand design. I feel that the Universe is hostile, so it is, so it shall always be.

Smoking, as a Crime?

August 20, 2009 3 comments

Should there be laws to protect children from second hand smoke? 

Quiet Perseverance

August 19, 2009 Leave a comment

One of the things that always ticks me off about hard-core Christians is their in-your-face attitude.  There is always a sense of indignation in my gut when they have that sympathetic look on their face that seems to say “if you only knew how great my club is you, would surely want to join.” 

I think one of the things that we as Atheist have to do, is make sure that we do NOT mirror this smart-assed, paternal attitude.  I agree that everyone will have his or her own approach to speaking with others about Atheism, but my preference is Quiet Perseverance.  I feel that if I get too excited or if I get too zealous then I am no better than my opposition.  Further, I feel that if someone is true believer they will likely have an equally as negative visceral reaction to my comments as I would to theirs.  So, be cautious in your approach.  Sometimes, simply listening and gathering data is more valuable and important than unloading huge Anti-God arguments.

Performance Review

August 18, 2009 1 comment

My med student had a nice Zinger this morning, I thought it worthy of mention in my Quotes section.

If God was my employee I would fire him for his incompetence.  -Gunter

Can you imagine keeping around an employee with God’s track record.  The plagues, the murders, the betrayals, the intolerance, the bigotry, the failure to get along with others, failure to take constructive criticism, mass starvation, the genocides…etc.   Folks, we CAN do better than this!!!

Can you imagine an HR professional reviewing his Resume?   ‘Well God, Why were you fired from your last job?”